Hyperreal

A child partly learns the language by listening to the “grown-ups” talking to each other …{snip} … I still think there must be a better way than throwing all these different variations at us, but the present Intermediate class system does definitely work.

Yep, you’re right, but we still teach children simple words, then more complex stuff, bit-by-bit, year-by-year, until we’re subjecting the poor kids to the baroque version of the language as it was in Shakespeare’s time.

When learning a foreign language we don’t try to learn it all in one go just by listening and talking to native speakers, instead we learn the important but simple stuff first, then more complex stuff, like different verb tenses, and so on. The Italian classes I went to have five different levels. (I only managed level 1. )

So it would make sense to teach dancing in this manner – except you can’t really do this when you want to teach all the different levels at the same time.

I think I understand why Ceroc does it this way, but rather than go on at length, I’ll just leave it at that. I do hope though that there’s a way for me to augment the intermediate classes with some simpler beginner-intermediate training, perhaps via workshops.

I’m sure that I’d eventually learn pretty much everything I’d want to through intermediate classes, but I can’t help thinking I could optimise the process by working from the foundations upwards. And as I’ve said a few times before, I can be very impatient. evil:

Cheers!

Hi Guys,

Just back from the 10th class.

It wasn’t so great for me this week. Not entirely sure why, but mostly I don’t think I was in the right mood for dancing.

But let’s get on…

We had that stand-in guy again this week. Compared to our normal teacher, Franck’s certainly funnier, but they’re both great teachers (well, I think so) and I wouldn’t pick one over the other.

What he does seem to bring though, is extra women. Are they coming from all around Scotland or from his other classes especially, or is it just a coincidence? Don’t know, but there were a lot of unfamiliar faces, and not just beginners.

The beginners’ class was OK – nothing too difficult for me. Let’s see… Started with a yo-yo, then a slow comb (first time I’d done that - kept on trying to just do a comb!), into a good ol’ in-and-out, straight into a basket and following that with a man-spin back for the yo-yo.

Franck re-named the man-spin a “batmobile” as the guys were supposed to pretend they had a toy batmobile car in their right hand that could fly through the man spin and also helicopter above the woman’s head for the return. :rofl:

The first freestyle didn’t last very long (it seemed to me) but I got in a few dances – first with an absolute beginner whom I’d just finished the class with. She was doing quite good considering, but I directed her towards a taxi dancer after our dance finished as I knew he’d be able to help her much more than I could.

After a quick sip of water, a taxi dancer (new to me, don’t know if she’s new to taxiing or new to this class) asked me for a dance (I must still have that beginner look about me) and after that I had another request from a fairly recent start who I think might have done her first intermediate class tonight.

Both went quite well – maybe better with the taxi dancer though. I managed to practice my pretzel from last week and felt good about that.

With the less experienced woman I think I managed to find a better mix of moves – it was the same thing as I’ve talked about before, where with a better dancer you’re going to be more intimidated, will concentrate too much on getting the moves “right” and then have less time to think about choice of move.

Was looking around for another dance partner, of my choice this time, when the intermediate class started…

Franck assured us that he’d picked three quick and easy moves to do, but I didn’t do as well as the previous two weeks where some of the moves were clearly more difficult. Hopefully just a bad week.

First was something like “the lady nelson step across”, or something like that. Because the initial lead was very different from what I’m used to, but enough like a basket (two hands leading the lady to my right) that I kept on messing up. Could do it on its own, but as soon as I tried combining it with moves learnt later it would usually go wrong. You’d lead the lady to your right, turning her under your right hand into a sort-of swizzle type thing. Then you’d pull her back in a step-across type move (remembering to let go of both hands!)

Next up was a move with a name almost as long as this post! It started with a sort-of first move-style step in, but you put your wrist on the girl’s shoulder and then as you pushed her round you kept leading with the hand on the shoulder until you had turned her round twice(?) and switched places. Then you’d do a mambo walk (?? I think Franck had an alternative name for this bit too – nothing to do with toy cars though!) finishing with a spin bringing you back round to face the way you’d started. I could pretty much do this move.

Last was a “Sway Tornado”, although Franck didn’t want us thinking that it was as fast as the tornado name might suggest! :nice: It started with a sway, a move I wasn’t familiar with, but in the sway you’d switch your hands to hold with your left and then as you came out of the move you’d turn the girl twice – once as part of unwrapping her, then once again for kicks. :nice: (I think credit for this moves lies with Howard and Nicola, who taught it at the Aberdeen Beach Ballroom event. Right?)

My big problem with this move was simply that I was always on the wrong foot when trying to sway - I had first-move compatible feet (step back on the left), which was all wrong for this move (step back on the right.) :confused:

I maybe managed to get through all the moves one after another successfully just once or twice during the class, but as the class ended and the freestyle started my current partner and I went though it again a few more times and by the end I think we had a not-bad approximation to what we’d seen on the stage.

After that I stopped for a gulp of water and hid in the corner for a bit. (sorry!)

I asked a beginner to dance, but she wasn’t up for it. It was a shame as I didn’t feel up to dancing with anyone more taxing. I was tired and bit confused by the new moves. But when it comes down to it, I just wasn’t in a mood to dance.

So I left.

Not my most successful week. I had noticed again my problems with returns when I was dancing with the less experienced women – I think maybe with the more experienced, they’re maybe just better at knowing what they should be doing when I don’t lead clearly. Didn’t get a chance to analyse it further.

I’m always amazed that other people have problems during the intermediate class – I guess as a beginner-intermediate I expect everyone else to have it all figured out by now. Of course, I’m mainly going by what the women I’m partnered with are saying, or doing. I rarely have time to watch the other dancers. I was also surprised by how quickly some of the women decide to move up to intermediate. Won’t comment further on that one though…

Well, I think I’ve written enough for tonight. Think I need to get to my bed.

As ever, thanks to the dancers, the taxis, the demo and the teacher. :cheers:

Oh, and the venue manager – keep forgetting the essential role he plays. :cheers:

And “Hi!”s to all the people I got to chat with, a few for the first time. :flower:

Bye for now…

Hi,

Well I’ve set up some new blog software and copied all the important posts over. How does it look?

The biggest problem is that the smilies don’t match up. I started fixing them, but later decided I’ll try to get a better set for the blog to match the forum.

The other thing is other people’s replies and quoting them - I’ve limited myself to just un-attributed quotes, expect that sometimes my reply makes it clear who had written the quote in the first place.

What it comes down to is that threaded forums and blogs are different. Deal with it.

I think we should create a blog for Ducasi and his very LONG posts-I have attempted to read all of the posts on this thread, but gave up-there’s too many of them

I’d thought of posting all my thoughts on Ceroc to a blog instead of here, but then I’d have to persuade the audience that’s already here to go there. I don’t think I’d have the same readership or feedback. Certainly, not many of the dance experts who have helped me here would have taken the time elsewhere. :nice:

I’m not ruling it out for the future, though at the moment I’ve somehow managed to mess up the blogging software on my web site and i haven’t had a chance to sort it out yet.

I’m sorry that it’s reached the stage where it’s getting too much to read it all. Maybe you want to wait for the film version that Piglet and me are going to write?

Both Gadget and spindr have useful things to say about returns… Here’s what spindr says:

Hmmm, returns… …step up and close both of your feet together before you lead the return.

If one of your feet is stepped back, then your arm length is effectively shortened — this can pull the lady off balance as she turns — or lead her to move as the hand comes back to waist height.

This could be something, as it sounds a lot like my problem…

Except that in workshops the exercises we were taught didn’t insist on this and doing a small trial I don’t see the difference in my position if I leave one foot behind, but pushing me forward.

I’m going to get my DVD out and watch closely to see where the guy puts his feet when doing a return.

Thanks for the tip.

As for Gadget’s post, I think I’m going to have to read it a few more times to get to get the most out of it.

I think a big part of the problem is that the lady is just too far away from me – perhaps as a result of a spin gone awry. I need to fix this before trying to return her. Probably by either leading the spin better, or making extra steps in to bring her back under control. (Why does this remind me of what someone was saying in the active/passive follow thread about controlling a car as it power slides through a corner? Of course, in my case it’s just a careless skid on a patch of ice.)

Keeping the driving analogy going, this seems to be something that you can only learn about doing real dancing – in the same way as you can’t learn how to control a skidding car until you’re on a skid pan. When you’re in class everything’s much more controlled and (hopefully) both me and my car – err, sorry, I mean my dance partner – will know where we should be and can correct ourselves without requiring me to do the extra work (of fixing my mistakes.)

Of course you remember all the things your instructor told you and eventually it will all comes right in the end.

Hi there, it’s me again!

Just back from … my 9th class!

Another night of mixed fortunes…

First I want to say “Hi!” to everyone I met there - some for the first time. Cool meeting you. :nice: Let’s see if you appear anywhere in the following…

Beginners’ class went fairly smoothly, though it featured the dreaded “Ceroc spin” which I am never, ever on the right hand for! We also did the in-and-out, which seems like a bit of a redundant move, though I did end up using it later during a hairy moment in the freestyle… :whistle:

There were at least three ladies there for the first time, and from what I saw they all did quite well.

It’s always a pleasure saying “Hi!” to all the ladies I’m getting to know as they parade round in front of the men. I was surprised by one I wasn’t sure I knew who said “are you ducasi?” Seems I’m getting famous. :blush:

I’m also getting to know who I particularly like to dance with during the class and watch for them to come round to me – usually to see them go straight by… I don’t really know what it is about these people that rocks my boat, so to speak. I guess it may be they are just good at following my sometimes erratic lead…

First freestyle session was a bit of a disaster. I had the pleasure of dancing with a lady whom I’d probably put in my “like to dance with” box, but right from the start it wasn’t right. I think the problems started because I wasn’t quite ready for the dance – hadn’t got my brain in gear, and needed a drink (of water.)

Once we got going I found I had the same problem I’d mentioned last week of returns going astray. I stopped dancing to ask my partner what had happened – I needed to know. So we had a think, tried it again a few times and it seemed to be simply down to my leading being wonky. I can’t say for sure exactly what the fundamental problem was, but it seems like I wasn’t stepping in for the return (far enough?) (or maybe she was too far away to begin with?) and so my lead for a return was more like a catapult as I pulled the woman towards me.

This was a big blow to my confidence. If I couldn’t even get a simple return right, how could I hope to do any of the more complex moves? :tears:

Let me say I’m really grateful to the woman who was honest with me when I asked her what had gone wrong. I’m just sorry that it wasn’t a great way for her to spend 3 minutes of her time.

I almost went home right there and then. :tears: Then I thought about going to the beginner’s consolidation class. Then I decided I’d stay for the intermediate class and just go home straight after that.

Then the intermediate class began and I didn’t get a chance to have any other crazy thoughts. :confused: :really: :blush:

After that, obviously I wasn’t expecting the intermediate class to go so well for me, but I surprised myself.

What were the moves?!? I wish I could remember their names properly. I know there are people here who will know them and hopefully help (didn’t get any help last week though! :whistle: )

(I’d be really grateful to anyone who can point out any flaws in my descriptions which would imply a misunderstanding of the move. :nice: )

1. First was a first-move push spiny thing. You push the girl as she comes into your side into a cw spin which takes her behind where you were.
2. Pretzel thingy with a spin on the end. I’ve mentioned before how much I liked the pretzel and that was before learning it properly. This is this week’s move to remember. (I’ve already forgotten last week’s! :tears: )
3. Funny hatchback do-dah. In this the girl end up behind you facing away, I’m holding her hands right-to-right, left-to-left she’s got her arms crossed. She does a wee wiggle thing … I stand there looking stupid … She comes back up, I spin her back round, catapult style.
4. Archie(?) spin (I think?). Funny hand-hold things needed here which I didn’t quite understand. Apart from that fairly straight-forward.

I’m amazed at just how much carnage is going on around me during these classes. It means I’m not the only one who’s struggling.

The best thing though is one moment you’re struggling, then the girls all move round… she’s not sure either, but here we go… and suddenly you both find you’re doing it right! Things (just) fall into place. (That’s a punch-line to a joke in a song – who can name the song? )

I don’t know if I’ll ever be good at the wiggle thing. Maybe I’m too self-conscious…

For the Archie spin, you had to first get the girl’s hand wrapped round so her palm was face up, then pull it back down to go into the spin round bit. during this time you’re meant to (allowed to?) have your thumb on the back of the girl’s hand – I guess to make sure you don’t let go. I found that a bit difficult as my thumb was usually at the front of her hand and it wasn’t an easy task to smoothly bring it round to the back.

In the end though the carnage always settles (mostly?) and everyone seems to be doing all the moves OK (or at least their interpretation of them.)

Really, these moves seem to be only a little more challenging to me compared with the how I felt at my first class all those weeks ago. At least that’s during the class. How about after the class?

As I’d said, I’d sort-of decided to head for the door after the intermediate class, but I didn’t. I couldn’t give up – how could I face you all here. :blush: And what about all the people there that knew me too?

Instead I decided to stay and see what’d happen, but I wasn’t really up for asking people to dance though. That said, if you stand too close to the dance-floor, someone’s always going to come and want a dance with you.

So it wasn’t long before I’d been dragged up by a number of women and although I can’t say every dance was smooth like chocolate, I got through them pretty well. I even asked a couple of women to dance later on.

Over the night, I danced with maybe 6 or 7 people, with a nice range of different experience levels. All of them a pleasure in their own way – from the terrifying taxi to the absolute beginner. :nice:

I learnt first-hand the difference between passive following and active following (from a certain person who promised only passive following!) For me I think just for the moment I prefer a more passive follow, but I thought I coped fairly well with a more active style. I can’t blame her for becoming more active in her follow – if I’m hesitating wondering what to do next, it’s only natural she’ll want to do her own thing for a bit, and it was good because she did it so well. :flower:

In fact both of the most experienced (best?) dancers I danced with were very good to me when I found myself grasping for moves to do. :flower: :hug:

By the end of the night I had pretty-much regained my confidence. I was putting the odd pretzel into my freestyle, though I was definitely relying too much on boring first moves. But at least it’s better than stopping and asking for directions.

The highlight of the night for me wasn’t my dancing though, it was watching TheTramp dance. He’s just awesome. He also had some awesome partners. After watching him do a Double Trouble I’ve got to say: :worthy: How can I possibly match that?

Sorry I didn’t get to say good-bye to everyone, but that was my cue to head home.

And so that was it! :waycool: Life is a roller-coaster, ain’t it? :clap:

Thanks again to all the dancers I danced with during the class and freestyle. Big up for the DJ. Taxi dancers rule (even on their nights off!) And the teacher is just Pure Dead Brilliant.

Thanks for all your feedback too, I’d never have continued either this wee diary or dancing if it wasn’t for the support I’ve got here. Hugs and kisses all round! :hug: :kiss: :hug: :kiss:

No prizes for guessing which one I’ll be remembering.

Or at least trying to remember!

This is why I need someone to practice with – I’ve reached the weekend and I don’t know if I still know any of the moves taught to me on Wednesday.

I’ve tried practicing with various house-hold paraphernalia, but somehow it just isn’t the same.

Knowing the names of the moves might be a start of course!

Oh dear! :tears:

Hi everybody!

Well tonight I did my first Intermediate class! Woo!!!!

And although I didn’t do too bad (if I say so myself ) I don’t think I’m quite ready to drop the handle of “advanced beginner”. :nice:

But I’m rushing ahead! The night begins with the beginners’ class.

This was quite good. You know, it’s funny but I’m not sure I can remember the moves we did… Let’s see… catapult, back-pass, first move (I think?), then side-to-side (let go). Someone correct me if I’m wrong. :blush:

I really like both the catapult and the side-to-side let go - they’re fun!

During the first freestyle I (you’ll be glad to hear) danced most of the time. I went to grab some water during the first track, and might have been back for some more later, but the rest of the time I think I was dancing. It’s all a bit of a blur. :confused:

Overall I think it didn’t go too bad. There were probably fewer times when I was stuck for something to do next, though it did happen a few times.

But more of that later - let’s get onto the meat… The intermediate class.

I had hoped that maybe our fabby teacher might have chosen a slightly easier routine knowing that I might be there. :flower: No such luck! :tears:

I can’t remember all the different moves we did but I’ll try to describe them and I’d appreciate if someone who was there might clue me in.

So here we go…

1. Basket something unwrap?? You go into a basket but you let go left and unwrap the lady round to behind where you were, then you spin her back across behind you. This wasn’t so bad. I could pretty-much do this one.
2. First move something something?? Start with a first move but turn round to face lady and turn (spin?) her, then bring her round into a bit of a dip (or was it a lean??) back up and step back.
3. We stuck an Octopus in here to give us a break before going into the next move…
4. No idea what this is called. It starts with a basket-style wrap, but then you walk round the lady doing clever things with your arms so that she end up facing away from you at which point you can unwrap her round acw for one and a half turns. I initially had trouble with this move, as I think many people did - so I didn’t feel so bad. The teacher said that for people just starting out as intermediates it’s quite a tricky move to do. I think I got it in the end though. And this is one cool move, btw, definitely one to keep. :waycool:
5. We finished off with a slow man spin I think. Not good at slow. Not good at the spin at the end of this move either.

And that was it! Watching the general carnage around me from time to time it was good to know I wasn’t the only one struggling with some of the moves. In the end though, I think most people got it.

I struggled in a few places…

• Between the first two moves somehow I was meant to get the lady into a first-move hold without allowing the step-back, step-in bit. Never quite got this.
• The lean/dip thing. The main problem here wasn’t so-much the actual dip (which I didn’t have much of a clue about,) it was all the stuff just before that that meant I was rarely ready for it.
• The slow man spin - never really knew what I was doing through the slow part of this move. Didn’t really figure out how to switch hands to hold with the right while the lady walked round me. :confused:

And then it was over!!! Relief!!! :clap:

After, into the freestyle, I probably danced maybe as much as during the first one. Again, bit of a blur. My first dance was with a girl who had just the week before done her first intermediate as the lead. She had gone back to following this week - she said it was easier. It went quite well - we tried to do the routine a few times, but then I fell back on my trusty collection of beginner moves, throwing in one or two of the moves I could do from the intermediate class occasionally. I probably danced another 5 or 6 songs, maybe with four different partners, again, mixing mainly beginner moves with the odd (very odd?) extra fancy move.

I had a great time, though it wasn’t in any sense effortless. There were a few things that kept tripping me up (metaphorically speaking! :na: ) beyond my usual issues of losing the place mid-dance.

I found that often my yo-yo would go wrong with the girl letting go and spinning rather than stopping for me to pull her back round. I tried a stronger grip - this seemed to help! :nice:

I also found more than one partner misinterpreting a standard return as maybe a travelling return or even the start of a catapult (or who knows???). I’m not entirely sure what was going wrong, and so I’ve no idea why this was happening. I thought my returns should have been fairly well led by now. Maybe it was because the move the girl thought she was being led into was more natural at that point. I really don’t know. :confused:

I was pretty beat by this stage, and so based on the old adage, “always leave ‘em wanting more,” I left before I had managed to dance with everyone that I had promised dances to (or that I had wanted to dance with.) There’s always next week!

So, overall, a good night. Beginners’ class went reasonably smoothly. I went to my first intermediate class and managed to get through it - and learn some moves. I danced a whole lot more than previous weeks. I danced with some people I hadn’t before, whom I’ll hopefully be able to dance with again. I met some of the folks from the workshop, danced with a few and enjoyed the feeling of a shared experience.

I don’t know if I impressed anyone else, but I’ve impressed myself.

So once again, thanks to all the ladies I had the pleasure to dance with, (and I don’t think there were any where it wasn’t a pleasure!) Respect to the DJ - played some great tunes, (some of which I can even remember this week!) And thanks to the teacher and taxi dancers - you guys rule.

Cheers!

One thing I’ve been meaning to raise for a while…

What do people think of private lessons?

Do you think they would help me?

Have you had any? Was it useful to you? Were you a beginner?

Because this may be a delicate subject, please send me a PM if you don’t want to speak publicly.

… Maybe someone has suggested this before but have you thought of where you stand in the line up?

I had never given it much thought.

I normally like to stand near the front, to the right looking from the stage. This gives me the best view without having to look round too much. This is the last row of guys before a girl goes back to the end of the queue. So, yes, I guess this means I will usually get to dance with someone who may have a clue what she’s doing. Lucky me!

I had never really considered this. What do other men think?

What I do know is that girl’s don’t like starting in this row as they go off the floor sooner. :tears:

Hi Guys,

I’m just back from my second beginners’ workshop, and I’m guessing some of you would like to know how it went…

It was good. Like the first one, I’m not sure how much I tangibly learnt - in that all the moves were familiar, but I still think it was a valuable experience for confidence building.

The were 10 beginners - 4 guys, 6 girls - plus the teacher and her demo. I probably had the most experience of the beginners except for one lady who had done a bit of ceroc a while ago and was just in need of getting back up to speed. She was also keeping a real newcomer company.

The standard format of moves in the morning, and putting them together in the afternoon was followed. Maybe it was because of the lower numbers, or more likely it’s just easier with a lady teacher, but in this workshop the girls had much more time given to them to work on their movement, spins, and such. We (the guys) were also given exercises to do to help us move ourselves in time with the music and in sympathy with our partner.

It was all fairly straightforward.

The other beginners were fairly mixed standards, but there’s none of them I would complain about, even if I were allowed to. One beginner whom I’ve mentioned before - who had problems allowing the guy to lead even the semicircle - was a lot better today.

Another lady really impressed me with her spins which had really sharpened up very quickly after some guidance from the teacher. It was really good seeing the improvement in pretty much all the girls through the day. (It’s hard to comment on how well the guys were doing.)

I enjoyed my brief dances with the teacher - she liked to do double spins off my catapult which surprised me a little, but I guess she thought I could handle them.

I still have the same problems that frustrate me so much though - I sometimes forget what I’m doing during repeats of a set routine, and I sometimes get confused when I’m trying to do simple freestyling and end up stuck.

I think there’s two things going on here.

Where I should know what I’m doing next, either because it’s a routine or because I’d already figured out what I was going to do next, I’m blanking. My new theory on this is that I’m too busy enjoying myself, or thinking about something else, like listening to the music or the teacher, and what I should be thinking about just gets lost. (It’s a bit like that advert for some magazine where the woman forgets to step off the escalator as she’s so engrossed by the latest gossip, and falls flat on her face.)

The other thing is that I’ve planned a move, everything’s going swimmingly, but somehow I’m on the wrong hand. (A catapult isn’t quite so easy off the left hand!) This is probably just a special case of the first problem where I just haven’t been paying enough attention during the last spin or whatever to use the right hand. (I’ve getting very good at changing hands after turns!!!)

After the class I had a very useful chat with the teacher. She gave me some tips about what to do in these situations. She also told me I’m a good dancer. I was really flattered. :blush:

I don’t imagine she meant I’m ready to enter any competitions or anything like that , but good for where I am in the learning process.

While she was showing me a few things, she had me dance the girl’s part once or twice. That was weird, but in a cool way. :waycool: Here I am, just a beginner and I’m now learning how to follow as well as lead!

I wanted to ask her about my leading skills - one girl had said it was really good dancing with me (compared to some of the other guys) as I gave such a good lead. The teacher agreed with the point of view given by someone else that I’m fairly good in my leading, though I could make it a little stronger.

I think part of that is a confidence thing, which was the key thing that she (and many people here) have said I need more of. And of course she said the best way to improve my confidence was to dance more.

She does think I’m ready for the intermediate classes though. Does this mean I’m going to have to start a new thread in the “Intermediate Corner” called “First-time Intermediate Impressions”?

Once again, I must thank everybody - the other dancers, the poor demo who had to dance as a woman quite a bit - including once with me( ), but most of all, our fantastic teacher.

Thanks guys! :clap: :worthy: :cheers:

I’m confused.. I thought you were getting oodles of support on here and at classes ?????

Indeed I have. Thanks everybody for all of your support. :flower: :hug:

I’m just not sure how much it’s helping. :tears:

I’m also getting criticised (w.r.t the classes) for not dancing more in the freestyle, and (w.r.t the forums) for being critical of some of the dancers.

So, I’m doing something about it. I’m going to try to dance more. And I’m going to try to criticise less. Isn’t that what you want? :nice:

I’m not about to quit - not yet, but here’s something I just did that you can try for yourself - read over my last report (this post) and compare it to my first one (these three posts.) Am I enjoying it as much as I did when I started?

(Another wee exercise - can you see that the things I am worried about now, I had perceived as potential problems for me right from the start?)

So doubts creep into my mind now and then, but I am still enjoying it - for the moment. I just don’t know how long I will need to stick at it before either the epiphany happens or my enthusiasm runs out.

Maybe I’ve just had a bad week.

… meant to be FUN …

Yep, and the fun factor for me is diminishing, both on the dance floor and in this forum. :tears:

I think I’ve maybe been too honest. I’ve been coming to this forum and opening up, sharing my feelings about my learning process, maybe saying things that other people were only thinking - I think pretty much everything maybe a bit controversial that I’ve said, someone else has agreed with it to some degree.

But at the same time I am being criticised for some of my thoughts.

Well I’ve just been taught once again, honesty is not the best policy.

I thought people would want to know the negatives as well as the positives. In future I’ll just stick to the sharing my positive thoughts.

If I’ve been too negative about other people’s dancing, it’s probably because I don’t feel too positive about my own.

So, to leave you, some positive thoughts…

In my few weeks of learning I’ve danced with some wonderful partners, both in the class and freestyle. I’m regularly amazed at how good some dancers are, even after only a few months. Well impressed. :worthy:

I’ve met dancers who show incredible style, even when they’re dancing with a beginner! I’ve danced with people who were a pleasure to lead, who always followed perfectly, even when I led them into a move to no-where. :blush:

Every dance has been a pleasure in some way or other, and every dancer too. :flower:

New starts are learning ! You were a new start not so long ago and I hope no-one thought/said that about you !

Sorry, it seems I’m going to get the reputation of complaining about poor beginners or even worse, poor non-beginners.

I guess what I’m trying to do is make my own dancing seem better in my head by comparing myself against others whom I perceive as being in some way worse than myself.

If I can convince myself I’m sufficiently better than enough other people then I’ll be relatively good. And if I don’t feel myself to be relatively good I won’t enjoy myself. And then I’ll quit.

Sorry, it’s just the way I am. I’ll try to moderate my comments in the future.

I really do look forward to watching these beginners improve.

Hi Guys,

Well that was class numero sette. (That’s seven in Italian.)

I’ve been feeling stressed and was really tired going into the class, so please take this into account before telling me what I do or do not need to do.

There was a delay at the start due to the new computerised desk, with lots of people not having their card or having to write out their details. I totally understand why this is being done though. (Though a part of me is thinking DPA??? )

Other big difference was a substitute teacher. As usual, no names, but it’s not going to take a genius to figure out who he was. Also, we had a different demo who is a familiar sight around these boards. (Hi! Nice demoing!)

The moves… Only “new” one was the comb, though it wasn’t really new as I’d done it in a workshop. Or maybe the yo-yo was in some way new, as I think I’ve always done it with a push spin at the end. Dunno. Anyway, I wonder how many beginner moves are left that I haven’t done. :confused:

Again we were in the small hall and it was very crowded. Quite a lot of relatively new starts, and a lot of faces I didn’t recognise - a few people had said they’d also been to the Tuesday night class. I might be hooked, but I’m not that bad yet.

I liked our teacher’s style. He reminded me a lot of the teacher at the Edinburgh workshop with makes me wonder about Martin Harper’s point about “Teaching/dancing persona”, and David James’ suggestion that Ceroc is turning out clones. Hmm… Nah, it’s not that bad, they’re just two very enthusiastic teachers. Anyway, he was very good and also seemed to be popular with the girls as well.

During the class he raised a lot of the points that have recently been discussed on the forums. (Hmm… I wonder if he reads them too )

In the first freestyle danced with a few people. Not so bad. I did dance with someone that a while back I’d turned down. In retrospect I think I was right. I didn’t really enjoy that one. (Sorry if you’re reading this. :blush: ) Maybe it was just me.

Into the revision class and met all the new starts - a few of which were truly awful. A few times I’ve had girls lead the semi-circle and actually lift their hand out of mine. What are they thinking? One poor lady just refused to be led - even during the wee swinging hand bit before the 5,6,7,8… She was determined to do the moves her way, with or without me.

I wonder if it’s possible that some people just can’t do modern jive??? And how long it should take you to realise this? A week? A month? 3 months? A year? More? Please, I’d be very interested in replies to this. Perhaps someone might want to start a new thread based on this question?

I guess partly as a result of the late start we didn’t seem to get very long for revision and only went over the first move (push spin) and the yo-yo.

Our taxis (maybe after reading Wendy’s comments?) were doing a lot of counting of beats.

After the revision i met a bloke (maybe someone here?) who showed me the pretzel. Wow! It looks so complicated but it really is surprisingly easy. Did it first time! I tried to get him to show me the half-windmill that I’d seen on the DVD, but he was unsure how it went and our “demo” (a beginner of just a few weeks) had decided she’d had enough of being practised on. :nice:

We tried to borrow a taxi dancer, but she was busy with a new guy who needed her help much more than I did.

Anyway, by that time Wendy’s 9.45 boring music cut-off had arrived and the music got a bit too challenging for me, and as I was feeling tired and sore I made my excuses and left.

And that was another week done and dusted.

So, despite all the goading I probably didn’t dance any more this week than last. I didn’t really get a chance to see how well I was keeping in time with the music or to practice much actual freestyle.

Oh well, there’s the workshop on Sunday…

So what did I learn this week… Not that much from the actual class. Maybe I’ll take a look at the intermediate class next week. I don’t want to try to run before I know I’m walking right. Hmm… Maybe the workshop will have the answers.

To pick up on the discussion that’s been going on in my thread (and without my permission too! :angry: :na: ) I can definitely tell you that I was seriously intimidated in the first few weeks by watching “expert” dancers and then them coming to ask me to dance. (And at that stage, everyone who’s done more than a few intermediate classes would be an expert to me.) At least for me there was no danger (or there should have been ) of being led into weird and fancy moves beyond my ken. Think of the poor women! (Think of the children! )

I really think that if before the intermediate class all the really good dancers could leave us alone unless you want to taxi, that’d make life for the very early beginners a whole lot easier.

But then that’s just me, and I do see the argument the other way about needing inspiration and better dancers to dance with the more advanced beginners (like me!)

I guess the answer is that as well as the music needing toned down for beginners, the awesome “leet” skills of some of the more advanced dancers should also be turned down a notch or two.

As ever, thanks and “Hi!”s to all the cool people there that I met and/or danced with. I want to say it was a pleasure.

Stay tuned for a weekend report after my second workshop!